March 2024: BE Leaseholders to challenge cost of FED, firstly by participating in the consultation. Note, stage 2 and 3 leaseholder might have the FED buried and detailed amongst lines and lines of other works relating to the roof and windows. Look for "property works" with a zero cost to identify the FED works.
February 2024: Council consults on charging for the cost of installing new front entrance doors (FED), costing £1000-1400 per flat. BE Leaseholders to challenge cost.
September 2022: First-tier Tribunal publishes its decision. Read more by clicking here
June 2022: Two-day hearing at the First-tier Tribunal. Council admits during the hearing that it is liable for faulty ironmongery fitted to windows and will repair rusting and tarnished materials.
February 2022: A date for the Tribunal hearing has been set for June 2022 but is subject to change.
December 2021: Leaseholders start legal action against the council through the First-tier Tribunal
October: 2021: Outcome of ADR did not resolve the issues.
September 2021: Commenced ADR using council's procedure.
January 2021 Update: Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, the group continues to monitor activity but is not currently actively pursuing any significant action as Camden Council are, thankfully, not doing anything that is detrimental to leaseholders such as demanding payment. Please do contact us if there is an issue you want us to be aware of.
2020 News in brief:
Spring 2020: There was an unacceptable delay to removal of scaffolding which preceded the pandemic. It was making residents miserable and there was not good reason for it staying up and blocking light when we were forced to stay at home. Following group members' intervention and liasing with council officials, it was removed.
Autumn 2020: Despite work continuing and the virus having less impact than earlier in the year, residents are facing ignore emails and continued waits for snags to be resolved.
End of year 2020: Wates has been stripped of the tender to perform phase 3 of the works.
We moved to a new website in January 2021 and have copied previous news from 2019 over to this page below:
Camden's notes from most recent meeting
18/9/2019
0 Comments
In relation to billing we noted the following points:
Leaseholders were confused around the issue of not being required to pay the estimated demand immediately (especially since the demand referred to payment dates). We explained that the demand must refer to the payment dates specified in the lease, and Camden is not at liberty to deviate from the admittedly formalised format of the demand. If the group has suggestions on how this could be made clearer, we would consider re-wording the relevant section, or somehow highlighting it, in future.
The issue of rateable value was discussed. One leaseholder said that a flat could have a high RV but have fewer windows than a flat with a smaller rateable value, though they did not have an example of such a case. We explained that leaseholders are stakeholders in the building, and as such, they should consider the apportionment method to be based on them contributing to the maintenance of the building as a whole, not just the small portion that is their flat.
There was a point made about Camden being in breach of lease for not carrying out periodic cyclical maintenance every 7 years. We are not aware of any lease which refers to a specific timeframe in which we would carry out maintenance. While there are some differences in leases (largely because they have been drafted and granted over a number of decades), a specific timeframe is not mentioned in any of them that we are aware of. However if the group can cite the specific clause in a lease that refers to cyclical maintenance then we will review this.
Some leaseholders claimed it was discriminatory to not automatically allow non-resident leaseholders to pay by instalments. It was explained that the circumstances of non-resident leaseholders are considered to be quite different from those who occupy the property as their principal home. It was also explained that this differentiation was not just a policy of Camden and reference was made to the example of the 2014 directions on social landlord capping (Florrie’s Law), saying that those directions considered resident leaseholders to be eligible, while non-resident leaseholders are not. Leaseholders can contact us to discuss payment arrangements and can ask to be allowed to pay by instalments.
The group has for an update on the TRA Hall. I have contacted colleagues in the Regeneration team and Tenant Participation and understand that there are outstanding issues to be resolved. I have also asked for future plans for mechanical & electrical planned work. I will update you once I have information and note that the new 5 year Capital Programme is due to be taken to our Cabinet in December.
At the meeting we agreed to provide the group with a holding response to future queries if providing a full response would take more than 10 working days. We also suggested that we could meet the group again and it would be preferable to do so during office hours.
I hope the above is helpful and please let us know if you have any queries. Please also let me know if there are points raised that I haven’t covered so that we can respond to these.
Agenda for 2 JUl 2019 meeting
1/7/2019
0 Comments
AGENDA
6-8pm, 2nd July 2019
Yorkshire Grey Pub, 2 Theobalds Rd, Holborn, London WC1X 8PN
1) Introductions
Camden Council employees explain their role
BE Leaseholder Moderator outlines the format of meeting (TBC)
2) Update from Camden Council
Validation survey process, update on the overall programme, etc
3) Issues not directly related to major works
No/slow response to emails, TRA Hall safety, etc
4) Major works
Before BE Leaseholders ask their questions under a topic (a-e below), the original question/answer from their letter to Camden Council will first be stated. BE Leaseholders are to prepare their question(s) and self-allocate each to a topic (a-e) below in advance. If the question has not been answered by the initial response, then the BE Leaseholder asks the question (within the topic a-e up for discussion). Queries specific to a property may not be raised as it is unlikely it can be answered at the meeting.
a) Pace (e.g. is the contractor working at a reasonable speed?)
b) Quality (e.g. is the standard of work acceptable?)
c) Cost (e.g. understanding what makes up the cost)
d) Justification (e.g. have windows been maintained enough to avoid replacement?)
e) Checks (e.g. appointing a surveyor, second opinion on roof repair)
f) Other (any other important points or questions specifically relating to the major works)
5) Next steps
Options for continuing dialogue and seeking answers
6) AOB
Any other business
Change OF VENUE on 2nd Jul
1/7/2019
0 Comments
Thanks to a vigilant BE Leaseholder who checked what we discussed at our inaugural meeting about the TRA hall not passing the relevant fire safety regulations there is a change of venue as it seems the TRA hall is still not fit for use:
Venue: Yorkshire Grey Pub, 2 Theobalds Rd, Holborn, London WC1X 8PN
6pm, Tuesday 2nd July 2019
RSVP if you are joining and have not advised already. As you can see below, we cannot audio record the meeting and the venue may make listening in by phone difficult so sorry if you cannot make it. We will make notes the best we can in addition to Camden's own.
We look forward to a productive meeting as the council seem to be taking this very seriously.
Dear BE Leaseholders' Group,
Thanks for your email and I was just writing to you about this.
I was made aware of the concern today. I have been in touch with colleagues in Tenant Participation and Regeneration this afternoon as I didn't want to change the venue unless that was necessary.
We have now booked a private room at the Yorkshire Grey pub from 6 until 8pm. It is on the corner of Theobalds and Grays Inn Roads so just a little further away than originally planned. Apologies for the last moment change but thankfully we can still meet tomorrow.
Do you have an agenda for our meeting you can share with me?
We wanted to go through the validation survey process and give you an update on the overall programme. You had mentioned potentially appointing your own surveyor and we can discuss that in more detail if this is something you want to pursue. We can also provide information on billing and how / when additional costs would be communicated.
We will minute the meeting and distribute these for everyone to agree however I need to ask that the meeting isn't recorded.
Please contact me if you have any queries.
Yours sincerely
Caroline
MEETING WITH CAMDEN COUNCIL
17/6/2019
0 Comments
We have a date for the next meeting, which will include Camden Council being present. Please can you:
1) Confirm you received the email dated 17 June 2019 even if you can't make the next meeting because a large number did not respond to the last email and we will have to take anyone off the list who does not seem to be interested because they never reach out. If you did not receive the last email then let me know (we are emailing each member individually this time to avoid junk mail issues but it costs a lot of time so appreciate replies confirming receipt and your continued membership to the group.
2) Let me know if you can make the meeting* and if you wish to put yourself forward as the chair (we would like to rotate this role between members).
*2nd July 2019 at 6pm - Two other dates are available should a large number not be able to make this date so please advise either way if you can make it.
Location: TBC (likely Crowndale Centre where the coucnil is based during town hall renovation)
RESPONSE TO OUR LETTER OF 11 Apr 2019
21/5/2019
0 Comments
After you've read the letter please email beleaseholders@gmail.com to:
Confirm you received this mass email as the recipient list is large so we need to track whether any emails are going to the spam folder
Comment on any of the council's responses
Let us know if there have been any developments at your end, news you'd like to share or if you have received formal advice (e.g. you have spoken to a legal expert)
Advise if you'll attend the Camden Leaseholders Forum meeting on Tuesday 28 May at 7pm at Crowndale Centre, 218 Eversholt St, London NW1 1BD (Info: https://www.leaseholdersforum.org.uk (there's also a surgery with Camden Council if you want to ask stuff directly))
Advise what weekday times you are available in June for the next meeting (Camden Council has said it is prepared to meet us). We will aim for a weekday (not weekend), early evening, which should suit a council worker and us mostly 9-5ers.
Dear Bourne Estate Leaseholders Group,
Thank you for your emails to us about the Better Homes work to the Bourne Estate. Please accept our apologies for the delay in responding. You have raised questions regarding service charges to leaseholders and also questions about the work itself.
We have arranged our response to these two areas separately and our Leaseholder Services team have also provided information for leaseholders which is attached with this response.
Service charge queries from the Bourne estate
This note responds to queries raised by the leasehold group in April 2019 about the major works service charges.
Payment options
The group raised questions about help for the elderly or those in financial hardship. Camden has a range of payment options, which currently allow interest free periods up to five years and interest bearing loans up to 25 years along with a hardship scheme that allows leaseholders to defer payment.
Interest-Free Payment periods:
Interest free periods of up to 12 months on major works bills under £5000
Interest free periods of up to 24 months on major works bills over £5000
Interest free periods of up to 36 months on major works bills over £10,000
Interest free periods of up to 48 months on major works bills over £15,000
Interest free periods of up to 60 months on major works bills over £20,000
All extended payment options are only available to leaseholders who occupy the property as their only or principal home. Further details are in the attached payment summary guide. Leaseholders can discuss the best option available for their circumstances with leaseholder services. If there a number of leaseholders who would like advice we can also arrange a one to one surgery to help with payment option questions, please let us know.
Question 1 from group:
“Does the The Social Landlords Mandatory Reductions of Service Charges (England) Directions 2014 apply to the major works? Essentially, are we entitled to the "Florrie's Law" £15,000 cap on costs because the Better Homes project has been wholly or partly funded by the government?”
Camden response: The works in question are not funded by central government, which means there is no capping. Please note Camden currently receives no decent homes monies from central government.
Service Charges
The group has asked various questions on service charges.
Question 2 from group:
“We hereby request a summary of the service charges relating to part 2 (major works invoice). Once you have provided us with the document(s) we will then be entitled and may exercise our right under section 10, which allows us to be provided with access to the accounts, receipts and other documents. We will want to inspect the costs of scaffolding, fees, etc. and we would welcome receiving this sooner.”
Camden response: The major works invoice is an estimate, the leases allow Camden to request on account payments in the same way you receive requests to pay your day to day service charges. Estimated invoices don’t relate to monies paid for works as they are sent before the start of the service charge year. We send you a certified summary of costs at the end of each financial year with your statement of actual expenditure for the year. The major works scheme has just started so the majority of costs will be incurred in the service charge period 01 April 2019 to 31 March 2020.
You will receive the certified summary for this period in September 2020 and can request details of invoices at this point.
Question 3 from group:
“how is it fair that apportionment of the overall cost is based on rateable value of flats when it is feasible that a flat with a lower rateable value could be capable of having more windows replaced and therefore attracting a higher cost than one with a higher rateable value?”
Camden response:
Charging by rateable value is a fair and reasonable way to apportion charges for major works, with larger properties paying a higher proportion of the cost.
Question 4 from group:
“We are pleased to learn that leaseholders in phase 1 works who had been invoiced for works and were expected to enter into payment plans have had their invoices put on hold. Why was this decision taken? Why were leaseholders not told (unless they phoned)? If you will now contact leaseholders who will pay for the cost of letters and administration as this should not be added to our service charge bill?”
Camden response:
Our letter sent in March with the estimated invoices confirmed the payment arrangements and that payment of the estimated major works may be deferred (copied below). I have also attached the bills guide for you, which has several frequently asked questions.
Major works payments (information sent with estimates)
If your demand includes major works you will find enclosed a major works letters and bills guide explaining the various stages of a major works scheme. It will detail the stage you are at when a letter or bill is issued.
Payment of the estimated sums for major works maybe deferred until the scheme goes on site. We will write to you when the scheme starts, at which point you must either make payment in full or set up an arrangement in accordance with Camden’s payment options.
If we do not receive payment of the quarterly sums due from you in respect of the estimated demand for major works, we will assume that you agree and acknowledge our proposal that payment of the estimated demand for major works maybe deferred until you receive notice that the scheme is on-site. We will not take steps, provided you pay your day-to-day charges, to recover that portion of the estimated demand until such notice is served upon you.
Help with payment queries:
If individual leaseholders would like help or have any queries in respect of payment options and making payments. Please direct any queries to: camdenleaseholderservices@camden.gov.uk; Tel: 020 7974 3559.
Better Homes planned work queries from the Bourne estate
Question 1 from the group
“CC has said it would be more costly in the long-term to only rectify the "beyond repair" windows rather replace all windows on the estate. When CC was asked what proportion were beyond repair as it classed it CC said, on record, it did not know. Please provide details of comparison and cost assessment showing the case that wholesale replacement is better value for money than repairing what seems to be an unknown number of windows in an allegedly poor state.”
Many of the windows are original and date back to beginning of the 20th century, and have reached the end of their serviceable life. A ‘pepper potted’ approach to replacement i.e. replacing individual windows in isolated locations would not be a cost effective use of high level access (which is a significant proportion of costs) . Planners also want uniformity in buildings which have such high architectural importance
There have been regular meetings with the TRA over the last six to seven years in response to repeated requests to have the windows replaced with fenestration of a higher standard. The TRA has been supported by Ward Members in their requests to renew windows across the estate.
Question 2 from the group
“If CC has unequivocally complied with its obligations of the lease, what factors have caused some windows to get to a state that they are now reasonably beyond economical repair? Please provide a copy of the maintenance schedule for the last two decades or advise where we can access it.”
The first feasibility report commissioned in 2015 confirmed the dilapidated condition of the windows and other external elements.
Day to day repairs have been carried out to the estate on a reactive basis over the past decade.
All elements of construction have a finite life and will eventually reach the point where economic repair is no longer viable. That point has been reached
Question 3 from the group
“Some windows will not be changed as part of the major works. This is because they are connected to a door. Wates has advised that they will be done when you change the doors but CC has previously said it was not interested in changing the doors as part of the current major works (although it would arguably be more efficient and cost-effective) and replacing the doors might be years off. How does this affect the part 2 service charge for major works, if we are getting fewer windows than suggested?”
Residents’ flat entrance doors will be replaced as part of a future FRA programme. The glazing attached to some flat entrance doors can only be replaced as part of door replacement work. This is because the windows are joined to a door frame and cannot be replaced separately. This element of work was not included in the tender for the Better Homes work that Wates are delivering and therefore would not have been part of the Section 20 notice.
Question 4 from the group
“The window sub-contractor changed unexpectedly and there has been a quibble between CC and Wates over costlier wood trims being used instead uPVC. How have these issues contributed to the overall cost that will affect leaseholders?”
Wates’ have changed their window sub-contractor and are allowed to do so under the terms of their contract. Please be assured that the cost of the windows and the internal finishing trims will not change because of this.
Question 5 from the group
“When will the work on the roof be assessed and how will any alleged repairs be costed and communicated with leaseholders before work begins? Please be advised that we hereby put CC on notice to not commence any works on the roof until we have been given the opportunity to appoint an independent surveyor, should we not be satisfied with the amount and cost of work Wates claims is required.”
We are currently assessing the extent of repairs required to the brickwork, the dormer window structures and other roofing works. This is part of our usual ‘validation survey’ process. It takes place to assess areas that have been estimated before scaffold being erected.
The site team, including the Council’s own contract manager and clerk of works, carry out the validation survey. We assess the results of this and agree any changes that might be required to the original scope of works.
If you would like to see the results of the surveys then we can arrange for you or your independent surveyor to see these. Although we are happy to share information with you, we cannot delay the programme.
Question 6 from the group
“Would a representative from CC be interested in meeting with the leaseholders at a future meeting?”
Officers Planned Works and Leaseholder Services are happy to attend a meeting. If you can provide us with some dates then we will arrange this.
We are aware that residents have raised concern about contactor resources on site. We apologise the slow progress of work when it began are taking this up with the contractor to ensure efficient and continuous delivery of the project commensurate with logistical constraints.
We have written to all residents with the timeframes for completing all phases of the work. We will keep everyone updated of any changes this and provide a general update in the Summer of our overall progress.
I hope the above is helpful and please contact me if you have any further questions.
Yours sincerely
--
Caroline [surname redacted]
Team Manager (Planned Works)
COUNCILLORS contacted
20/5/2019
0 Comments
Following the failure of the council to respond to the letter and even after escalation to the CEO of Camden Council we are now being told that the letter will be responded to after getting the councillor(s) involved with the email below sent on 13 May. The escalation is currently on hold (there is plenty more we can and will do to hold the council to account) until we receive the response in the next few days from the council. A complaint has also been raised about why it failed to respond to our letter in the first place.
Do you cover the ward that includes the Bourne Estate on Portpool Lane, Clerkenwell EC1N?
For one month Camden Council has wilfully ignored the email below despite claims from the CEO office that it would be responded to. This is negligent, arrogant and incompetent, especially as the council expects those involved to pay hundreds of thousands of pounds between them after forcing the major works through following a procedural consultation last year.
I am sure you will agree this should not have got to a stage where I should need to contact you and this complaint requires a response for you to tell us why council officials that we pay for through council tax and leaseholder service charges are failing in their duties. We reserve the right name and shame in the media and on our web site any person we deem negligent in addition the other action we are now taking.
The following have received the email below and failed to respond for a month: Mike Edmunds, Dominic Clarke, John Burton and Capital Services.
I look forward to your response. Please forward and copy me in if you need to refer this serious matter to a colleague.
escalation process started
30/4/2019
0 Comments
Capital Services, John Burton, Dominic Clarke and Mike Edmunds have all failed between them to respond to the letter.
Jenny Rowlands, CEO of Camden Council has now been contacted. She has been asked to accept the offer of extra time to respond, by close of business on 10 May 2019.
We are ready to proceed with our escalation processess involving external parties, if required.
First letter sent
13/4/2019
0 Comments
The first letter outlining leaseholders' concerns, which had text and questions agreed by the group, was sent to Camden Council on 11 April 2019.
We await its response by close of business on 29 April 2019.
THINGS TO CONSIDER WHEN WORK STARTS at your home
8/4/2019
0 Comments
A window very close to your door or the neighbour's is likely to be one unit and will NOT be changed. This is contrary to what we were advised and even the markings made during planning on the windows themselves. They may be changed in a few years time when the doors are changed as part of the fire saftey improvement plan (in light of Grenfell). Are we going to receive a reduction in charges for fewer windows being installed? Is the council in breach of National Heritage guidelines for damaging the look of the grade II* building by having mismatching windows in the medium term? Who will pick up the bill for needing to have contractors come back to do windows alongside doors (less efficient)?
Windows have been left without a trim. This is because there was a dispute between the contractor and the council about what should be used; wood or uPVC. The former will be applied but if this costly accessory has not been accounted for who will pick up the bill for it?
Reports of the contractors and work has so far been satisfactory, sometimes even completing work sooner than estimated. However, you should be aware that the contractors do leave doors open and unattended so if you will not be present then there is a security risk to your property.
Order of flats having work done
8/4/2019
0 Comments
It is not clear how Wates and/or Camden Council is choosing which flats get their windows installed first in each block. Other [social housing] tenants on the same floor or above/below have not been contacted in some cases. Please report if you, as a leaseholder, have had your windows done first in your block.
Are we being prioritised because we are paying for them or does the council want to get them done sooner so that they can invoice us sooner?
payment of Major works invoices on hold
8/4/2019
0 Comments
A number of leaseholders have discovered, purely by accident, that the payment request is on hold. Where work has started the council is entitled to start charging but in w/c 25 March 2019 this was put on hold for leaseholders that had received an invoice (phase 1 blocks). Leaseholders are advised to check directly with leaseholder services. While we welcome this hold we have not been advised why they have done it and why they have failed to let leaseholders know, some of whom will have set up payment plans and made their first payment. If the council do write to leaseholders to let them know who is going to foot the bill for writing/sending the letters, including postage?
Coincidentally, we understand that Camden Council became aware of this web site at the end of last month. Hello, Camden Council!
inaugural meeting
6/4/2019
0 Comments
Agenda
9-11am
1. Welcome by chair
2. Leaseholder introductions
3. Discussions of main concerns/information
4. Action plan
5. AOB
from 1 to ?
1/2/2019
0 Comments
One leaseholder acts to bring other leaseholders together. Campaign begins, reaching out to the others on the estate.